♪ [heroic music] ♪ ♪ ♪ - Hello and welcome to Comic Culture.

I'm Terence Dollard, a professor in the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.

My guests today, well, it's two guests.

It's Julio Anta and Gabi Mendez.

They are the team behind the new graphic novel, "Sol Goes for Goal."

Julio, Gabi, welcome to Comic Culture.

- Thank you for having us.

- So, one thing about this graphic novel, it is part of the Hillside Valley graphic novel series.

When you are coming up with the idea for a series like this, how do you pitch it?

Is it something where you know it's going to be a series or is it starting off as one book that you think you've left enough breadcrumbs that you can go ahead and follow some other trails later on?

- Yeah, in the case of this book, it's definitely the latter.

We started off, book one is called "Speak Up, Santiago!"

and that is a bilingual, middle grade graphic novel about a boy named Santiago.

He's a New York City kid.

He travels to our fictional town, Hillside Valley, which is modeled after a bunch of Hudson Valley towns, to spend the summer with his grandmother, his abuela, who only speaks Spanish.

And that was our pitch to our publisher, essentially, was we want to make this book.

And then I sort of had a last minute thought before we sent the pitch out.

And I asked Gabi, would you be interested in doing another book, maybe turning this into a series?

And I added one last slide to our deck.

That was the idea for "Sol Goes for Goal."

And then our editor read it and she loved the idea and thought this could be a series where we explore all of the kids of Hillside Valley.

So yeah, it was definitely the latter.

- The one thing that I was struck by is the world that they live in.

So Gabi, as you are putting together the character design and as you're putting together this fictional town, what are your inspirations and how do you sort of make not only the characters seem real, but the world that they live in seem real?

- I'm so lucky to have a partner like Julio who includes tons of reference images in his scripts, which is truly priceless, including a lot of vacation photos from the area to give that kind of vibe.

He also asked for specific vibes that I could look into to give a feel for the space.

And we kind of discussed what the characters nationalities were and what their personalities were.

And from that, you can build up what they look like based on their history, based on what they do.

So like Santi's grandma, his abuela is kind of a mix of both Julio's and mine to give her a real to life feel.

I see my Nana in her when I look at her and the kids in the class and the kids who are all the friends.

I grew up in a largely Hispanic port town.

And so I would just pull from what I've seen, what I remember growing up and just my friends too.

- Having a large cast like this, you've got to make every character seem unique.

And it's not just about, oh, this one has dark hair, this one has spiky hair.

So as you are creating these characters and giving them their own body language, how do you sort of approach it so that way we kind of get a sense of who the characters are so that maybe Sol is going to be a little bit more confident in this scene, but look a little bit more pensive in that scene?

- OK, it depends a lot on the characters' personalities because the personality will show through their body language, right?

If Sol is feeling confident, then she does have more of an open stance.

She has more of a head up and there are times when she feels more vulnerable.

I could adjust her hairstyle too to show that she has her hair down because she's very calm and at home and kind of in her thoughts.

Or if she's ready to go for action, then she is all put together.

And with the other characters as well, their personality show a lot through their body language and a little bit through their clothing too.

Like our Nico, our pipsqueak, is always a little stubborn and stern and you can kind of see it in how he holds himself.

Meanwhile, his older brother is very chill and very calm and you can kind of see it in his manner.

But I think that's one of the most fun parts of doing a book like this with a bunch of kids is that they're very expressive.

So it's easy to show how they express themselves because it's all over their face, all over their body.

- And Julio, it's a series of books that are for, I'm guessing like that middle school age, the characters are about 12 themselves in the book.

So what is it about that age group made you want to write towards that demo and also pick stories that are a little bit more complicated than maybe the books that I was reading when I was that age?

- We are, I feel like Gabi and I are very lucky to be in this sort of cohort of graphic novels and graphic novelists because now, to your point, we are able to make these stories that tackle identity in very specific ways in ways that are true to us.

And I got my start in young adult and in the direct market comic book space.

My first series was a five issue miniseries at Image Comics called Home.

But when I sort of transitioned into YA, I sort of found my natural voice and middle grade is an even different voice than YA.

And it's a voice that I sort of had to discover while writing Speak Up Santiago.

But I'm also lucky because I have an 11 year old son.

So this is like the perfect demographic for the books that my son is reading.

This series is like for third to seventh graders.

So I can listen to him, I can listen to his friends and really discover the voice of the characters that way.

- And when you say it's for third to seventh graders, there's sophisticated themes in both of these books.

So how do you know that it's appropriate to have a theme that might be challenging for an adult to talk about, but at the same time make it approachable enough that a kid can read it and say, you know what, that rings true to me even though I don't tell my folks that I feel this way.

- With Sol Goes for Goal in particular, so Speak Up Santiago was a book that I sort of formed mostly on my own, the proposal for it before I found Gabi we met on Twitter back when that was still like a usable platform.

But with Sol Goes for Goal, we co-wrote the story together and we took parts of her story, parts of my story.

I feel like Sol is a very like good amalgamation of us because in character Sol is very similar to me, you know, a perfectionist.

But then parts of our identity we definitely took from aspects of Gabi's identity.

But, you know, I think generally speaking about so-called complicated themes, you know, I don't I think most issues are not too complicated for this age group.

You know, kids, I feel like we don't give them enough credit because they do think deeply.

They do think deeply about their own feelings.

You know, like I remember, you know, my first crush was in the first grade.

You know, I knew what my like orientation was when I was in the first grade.

Right.

And I think that is true, whether you're straight, whether you're queer, you know, to your point, these might not be things that kids are necessarily talking to your parents to their parents about yet.

But it's certainly something that I think is appropriate for them to read about and to explore these identities, even if they're totally different than their own, which I think is super important as well.

- So, Gabi, as you are, you know, collaborating, how does this work?

I mean, you are a visualist.

You're thinking in terms of the image, but you're also a storyteller because we wouldn't know the story unless you're putting it on the page.

So how do you sort of work with Julio to make what he wrote for Speak Up Santiago work for you as the artist, but also as a collaborative storyteller in Sol Goes for Goal that you can make this, you know, this storytelling jump that makes it make sense for both of you?

- Depending on the author.

Again, I'm just so lucky to have Julio.

We have a lot of back and forth while I'm doing the pages themselves.

And with every step we go through thumbnails, we go through pencils, we go through inks until we reach the final image.

Right.

So there's a lot of wiggle room that I have to think, oh, I want to depict something or how I might think maybe this works better to tell this beat or if I can tweak this, maybe this might read differently.

But I also have a lot of trust from both Julio and from our editor to make those decisions myself.

If I, you know, if it's not a big change, then I can do it within the book.

But it's a pretty smooth system that we've got going on, I think.

Julio's scripts are very readable, so it's not a difficult matter to translate from text to image for me.

- As you are making that translation from text to images, you know, I'm thinking about some of the scenes that we have and Sol Goes for Goal is set in the autumn and there's a lot of symbolism for autumn.

There's pumpkins, there's hay bales, there's leaves falling.

So is this something that you are conscious of, like this is going to help with that mise en scene, which is going to inform the audience without saying, hey, it's the fall?

And how much of that is in the text and how much of that is just you intuitive as the artist saying, I'm going to put these touches in because that makes the most sense right now?

- I remember the note that Julio gave was, we're thinking Gilmore Girls Stars Hollow's fall.

And I'm like, OK, I can take us there.

And so just with the various backgrounds, I would think what would make this cozy?

What would make this feel like a lived in space?

What would the kids be doing?

How would the adults be decorating their storefronts and shops and the leaves on the ground as the time passes throughout the semester or the first semester for the kids?

It's a very conscious background thought running through the process.

- And Julio, as you are writing, I think the first book, Speak Up Santiago, set in the summer and this is now set in the autumn.

It seems like you're setting up maybe a book in the spring.

So is this something where you're in addition to having these characters that are going to step forward and take a lead role, is it something where you're thinking in terms of seasonality where maybe this person's story makes the most sense in winter?

- Yeah, definitely.

And you know, I've even as you know, they are so Sol is starting the seventh grade right at the start of this book because I felt like that was the most appropriate grade level for her character and for her story.

But, you know, I think we can play it a little fast and loose as we as we go on, because, you know, in success, right, where we get to make a lot of these books, if we are doing it season by season, eventually we're going to be out of middle school and we're going to run out of time essentially.

So, you know, it is something that I think about, but I don't think that it is something that needs to be told totally sequentially, though I imagine that kids will catch on.

And I do a lot of school author visits and they ask me very specific questions about things that happen in the book.

I had a lot of kids clock what Sol's story was going to be just by reading book one.

And, you know, we really didn't see it a lot.

We see it, you know, maybe a few panels that sort of hint to what was going to be happening with her next.

So I'm sure I'm sure some kids will catch it.

But, you know, I think whatever is right for that character is what's right doesn't necessarily mean that we have to go in the exact order of the seasons.

- You mentioned school visits.

I'm thinking a lot of the guests on Comic Culture are comic book professionals who spend, you know, seemingly days without ever leaving their home because they're just working nonstop, 23 and a half hours a day, a half hour passed out before they get revived.

But you're able to, you know, because this is a different medium, is this something where these school visits are the publisher is helping you set them up or is this just something that you're doing because you want to give back to your community?

- It's a mixture of that.

I mean, it is, you know, doing school author visits.

And these are these visits for context for anyone who isn't aware.

They are their presentations, essentially, where you talk about, you know, your career as an author, about your new book, and you do a signing and a Q&A and kids will ask you all sorts of questions.

But for me, it's like the best way to sort of connect with, you know, if this was a corporation, my core demographic, right?

Like, these are my readers.

And so it's really great to be able to do that.

But to answer the specific question, sometimes my publisher sets it up.

Sometimes schools reach out to me directly because the kids are asking for it.

You know, sometimes, you know, they're either using the book in their classroom because we produce these really great teacher's guides for the books.

And sometimes it's the publisher, you know, the new book is coming out and they want me to go on tour to a bunch of schools.

So it varies.

But either way, it's like just an amazing experience and a great way to meet these kids that I'm writing for.

- And Gabi, you are on the other side of this.

You are the person hunched over the tablet or the drawing table trying to hit those deadlines.

I mean, I don't know the exact page count, but it's probably close to 200 pages, I'm assuming.

Are you able to get out and speak to students in your community and get them excited about this?

Or is this something where you are really just somebody's got to poke you every now and then to make sure that you get the pages done?

- I do fewer visits for sure.

The ones that I've done are mostly publisher-led, but I've been reached out to by, say, like smaller conventions.

Like this past winter, I did PocketCon in Chicago, which was a small convention for people of color to present.

And I got to meet a lot of kids through that, especially a lot of kids of color and just really talk to them about comics and about creating and about feeling different.

And so while I do do fewer of these events, they still are so meaningful when I do.

- I will say also, Gabi is extremely fast.

[Gabi laughs] She was working on this book and her upcoming YA at the same time.

- Well, I was going to ask about that.

I mean, a lot of artists are dealing with a deadline every month.

They've got to do 22 pages a month, and they've got to sort of figure out how to get the kids home to school and grocery shop and everything else.

So when you're sitting down, you've got a little bit more leeway, but how do you stay focused so that way you're getting the pages done when they need to get done, but also able to do all that other stuff that you need to do?

- It's just a lot of scheduling and discipline and knowing that when I have a project to do, that is the season of work and you lock in and then pass the deadline.

Then I can just kind of collapse and regroup and, you know, plan for the next season, which comes up pretty quick.

But just intense planning in my planner is how it works.

- And on this book, you're working with a color artist.

So I'm wondering, as the person who's doing the line art, who's got to figure out essentially where everything is coming from, how do you communicate with that person to make sure that the colors represent what you're trying to do, whether it is a mood, whether it is the direction of the light or the time of day?

- They are given the script for the most part, so they are able to see, you know, the notes that I was given that I'm trying to portray through the lines.

But sometimes I do add little notes here and there saying maybe this kind of effect for this, I think it would sell it.

Or I'm sorry, this is so confusing.

This is what's here and there.

And our colorist will come back with a sample of the pages and we'll go through the same way that I give my pages to Julio and the editor to look through and just have any notes on.

Our colorist does the same thing.

And then we get to look at that.

- And Julio, the editor.

So you are dealing with somebody who knows books, but might not know the type of book that you're trying to do.

So how do you sort of navigate that ocean to make sure that, you know, the editor is on board with what you want to do and can give you the feedback that is going to make the book even better without sounding like they don't know what's going on?

- It depends on every project.

You know, as someone who frankly works on a lot of books, this year I have two graphic novels publishing and two single issue comic book series publishing.

Every editor is very different.

For Hillside Valley, we got very lucky.

Our editor, Shana, she is a veteran in publishing and has been working in graphic novels since almost the beginning of when these, you know, traditional book publishers started publishing graphic novels.

So she understands very intimately the medium of graphic novels.

And she's also a super supportive editor.

So like when I work, I normally work with really big outlines.

So, for example, the outline for this book was maybe like a 10 page typed outline.

So it's exactly what is going to happen in the book.

And I leave some room for discovery and creativity.

But, you know, my editor is able to edit from the outline so that when we do get to scripting, you know, it's not, we're not doing huge story edits.

It's more, you know, it's additive mostly.

But, you know, there are also editors where you do, especially with cultural stories, stories like Speak Up Santiago and Sol Goes for Goal and some of my other work that is very culturally specific.

There are conversations that need to be had about, you know, the specificity and what exactly you're trying to accomplish with the books.

- One of the things we talked about was the, some of the themes in Sol Goes for Goal.

Is there ever, you know, pushback from the editor saying maybe you need to dial this back here or maybe you should try this approach?

Maybe there's something that you're doing is too subtle or not subtle enough?

- Yeah.

I mean, I try to, as an author that does write, you know, I mentioned before that I got my start in YA, which is young adult.

And this is with heavier themes.

You know, my first book was about a boy who separated from his mother at the border during the family separation crisis who has superpowers.

It was a book called Home.

So that is obviously a book with a very strong perspective that I needed to make sure that my publisher, Image Comics, would allow me to stay true to that idea.

So a lot of these conversations I'm having ahead of time to sort of like nip it in the bud and make sure that we don't clash later on.

But a lot of times I, because of the work that I do, it attracts the editors that are interested in that kind of work.

So, you know, sometimes there might be a conversation about let's not hit someone with a hammer.

Let's instead try to be a little more subtle, which is sometimes a great note.

But I think as an author, you also need to know when to push back notes, when notes betray the idea and betray, you know, the perspective that you're trying to push across with your book, essentially.

But with Hillside Valley, you know, we have not run into those issues.

Like I said, we've been very lucky to have a very supportive team that we're really excited about the things that we wanted to address with this book.

- One of the things about the rise of graphic novels is that, well, in the old days, if you read comics, it was considered, well, it wasn't literature.

You were, you know, wasting your time, whereas it's really just a great gateway to get people to be interested in reading.

And there's sophisticated stories that can be told because this is a very vibrant medium.

So as you are seeing this growth in this graphic novel, especially in the middle grades realm, is this something where, you know, you're thinking this is the best market or not market, the best area for you to target because the stories are more relevant to you?

Or is it something where, as an author, as an artist, you can kind of bounce between different age groups and still be accepted as not being sort of like, oh, you're that, you know, middle readers guy?

- We're in a really great time for graphic novels where not only are they super popular with kids, but schools are accepting them in a really big way and teachers are using them in the classrooms.

And I mentioned the teacher's guides that we make for all these books that have curriculum and discussion questions and activity ideas.

And that has really, I think, opened the door for us, especially to make this a more serious medium that does tackle serious topics, just like the comics that I grew up reading, you know, in the direct market, single issue comic book space that do tackle very serious subject matter.

But we can now do that in age appropriate ways in the middle grade and YA market.

So I feel really lucky for that.

And because it is in the traditional book publishing world, there's a lot more support.

You know, these are, for better or worse, huge multinational corporations, and they have the resources to really, you know, to send us on tour, to give away free copies of these books at library conventions and at, you know, places like NCTE, which is a convention for English teachers.

You know, these are not spaces traditionally that Marvel and DC are operating in, even though I did do a young adult graphic novel with DC Comics, a Blue Beetle graphic novel, and they were also very in these library and education spaces.

But, you know, they're not really promoting, you know, Absolute Batman at a library conference, right?

So I feel lucky that I get to jump between these two worlds.

But, you know, working with traditional book publishers definitely feels like a very robust system for getting these graphic novels out.

- And, Gabi, you are an artist, and you are creating content for people who are going to be inspired.

So you are creating characters and you are creating art that is going to inspire the next generation.

So have you gotten feedback from people, maybe they've done sketches of your characters or asked you, hey, how can I do what you're doing?

- I haven't been so direct with my readers, but very recently a friend of mine, her mom is a teacher, just came to me with some books, like, can you sign these for her classroom?

And just seeing the books, how beat up they were from being read over and over again, that's inspiring to me.

And it does remind me of being a kid and picking up these books.

And I still, same, have the books I had when I was a kid, the comic books, that I've read over and over again that inspired me.

And also going to these little conventions and seeing the small, small kids look at what I'm doing and say, are you drawing?

Did you draw that?

I want to do that.

And that sort of energy, I really want to support them and make sure that they keep going.

In fact, at Pocket Con, I led a workshop on just techniques for drawing.

And we had all ages in that room.

And even some of the parents were getting involved.

And just I could see the feeling of, oh, I can do that.

Oh, that's not that hard.

Even if it's not perfect, it's still learning, it's still drawing, getting that practice in.

So it is incredibly inspiring to see my work reflected in these kids and these teenagers and sometimes their parents.

- It's amazing when somebody realizes that you don't have to be perfect, where you can just do something because you love to do it.

And I think part of what's happened in pop culture is we've monetized and commodified the creative arts so much that unless, you know, angry Simon Cowell tells us that we're good, we don't think we can sing.

So it's great when people just realize, you know, I can doodle, I can do this, and I can turn it into something a little bit more.

Now, they're telling us that we're just about out of time.

I did want to ask if the folks watching at home wanted to find out more about you, about Hillside Valley, where can they find you on the web?

- Yeah, you can go to my website.

It's JulioAnta.com.

I'm also @JulioAnta on Instagram.

- I have GabiMendez.com as well, and my Instagram is where I post most things, but it's a little hard to spell.

It's on my website.

You can find it there.

- And I guess just time for one more quick question.

Gabi, I'm assuming that you are working in the digital arena at this point.

So what's your process like?

- So I -- oh, do I have any on me?

I do my thumbnails on paper first, very, very roughly, so I can get a feel for how the pages are supposed to look.

And then I take these digitally and I do them on Clip Studio on my iPad.

So it's all very mobile.

It's all very small.

But it's all there in that iPad for the most part, start to finish in the program Clip Studio.

- Well, Gabi, Julio, they are telling us that we are out of time.

I want to thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to talk with me today.

It's been a great half hour.

- Thank you for having us.

- It's been great.

- I'd like to thank everyone at home for watching Comic Culture.

We will see you again soon.

[heroic music] ♪ ♪ ♪ - Comic Culture is a production of the Department of Mass Communication at UNC Pembroke.

Students studying broadcasting direct and crew episodes getting real world hands-on experience while still on campus, preparing them for careers after graduation.

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