Jeffrey Goldberg: Good evening, and welcome to Washington Week.

So, we're living in a new country tonight, one in which Kansas is going to have a Democratic senator, one in which even the ultimate survivor, Susan Collins, couldn't survive, one in which the state government of Texas will be under complete Democratic control, making it no different, in this respect, than Massachusetts.

We are also living in a world in which the ultimate immigration hardliner, Stephen Miller, will be running the White House.

I, for one, would love to be a witness to his first meeting with Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer, which could also be their last meeting.

Miller's appointment is a reminder that Donald Trump remains the nation's chief executive for another two years, and matters of, among other things, war and peace are still in his hands.

Joining me tonight to make sense of this historic week, Peter Baker is the chief White House correspondent for The New York Times, Leigh Ann Caldwell is the Chief Washington Correspondent at Puck, Adam Harris co-hosts Radio Atlantic, the flagship Atlantic magazine podcast, and Stephen Hayes is the Editor of The Dispatch.

So, yes, that happened.

What do the kids say?

That happened.

That -- everything happened.

It's a very big week, and it -- a week that ends in a unusual bang, I would say.

Here, just before we talk about it, here's Donald Trump on this announcement.

Donald Trump, U.S.

President: I wanted to make a change.

I think Susie's done a very good job, great job, but I just wanted to make a -- Stephen's been great, and we got to make moves.

Stephen's been with me from beginning.

He gets it, very good politically.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Peter what are we to make of this appointment, Stephen Miller as Chief of Staff?

Peter Baker, Chief White House Correspondent, The New York Times: Well, look, to the extent that there was any question about whether the president would respond to a drubbing of his own party with conciliation or confrontation, there's no longer a question, right?

And the answer is not conciliation.

Stephen Miller is not the person you would pick for chief of staff if you actually wanted to -- Jeffrey Goldberg: Was that ever actually more than a rhetorical question?

Peter Baker: Look, on election night, he makes these noises.

He told my colleagues, Tyler Pager and Erica Green, I can work with Democrats, and so forth.

He does that from time to time.

He doesn't really mean it probably, doesn't follow through on it, and clearly in this case, he's not going to follow through because you wouldn't pick Stephen Miller if you really thought you were going to negotiate with Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer.

To your point, I think that -- just to remind our viewers that Miller is the architect of the mass deportation strategy.

He thought that they were too soft in Minnesota, not the other way around.

He is the architect of basically every other hardline policy that the president has put in place.

And so he is the bete noire of the entire new Democratic majorities in both Congress.

They're not going to want to work with him, even if for some reason he were to want to work with them.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Susie, Miller's getting blamed, it seems for losing.

Adam Harris, Host, Radio Atlantic: I mean, well, it seems like what's happening here, right, is you've seen people like J.D.

Vance sort of start to walk away from some of the policies that the president has espoused over the last couple years, whether that's the Iran war or things of the sort.

And Stephen Miller has been one of those people who is a -- like you said, Peter, right, he's a hardliner.

He has been around the president for the entire time.

He seems as if he's a true believer in the sort of policies, the sort of MAGA policies that the administration has put forward.

And so when you're sort of backed into a corner, when your party is not being successful, when you've seen a big repudiation of the party, then it makes sense that you go with somebody who actually believes in what you believe.

Jeffrey Goldberg: It seems like Susie Wiles' exile is not a full exile.

It wasn't the kick them to the curb kind of tweet that other people have ended their careers with.

Is that fair?

Leigh Ann Caldwell, Chief Washington Correspondent, Puck: Yes, it's, I mean, she's apparently going to his political operation.

We'll see what that looks like.

That's also where Karoline Leavitt is.

That's also where James Blair is.

You know, it's kind of where the people who leave the White House end up, with a paycheck.

Stephen Hayes, Editor, The Dispatch: Spending more time with her family.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Is it like an island?

Is it like a little island or something?

Leigh Ann Caldwell: There's like a shadow White House that builds outside the White House.

We'll see how much influence Susie Wiles has moving forward.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Right.

Leigh Ann Caldwell: You know, probably very little.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Well, Steve, this is what I wanted to ask about young Stephen, the protege of the president.

Trump said he's very good politically.

What does that mean?

Stephen Hayes: Yes, I mean, it's unclear what it means.

He also said he's a very good manager.

There are a lot of stories that he's actually not a very good manager.

He's not very good politically.

He pushed some of the ideas that were proved the most toxic for Republicans in this election cycle.

He's also somebody who pushed suspending habeas corpus.

After several months in office, he wanted the president to suspend habeas corpus, something that was too much even for some of the other hard- hardliners at the White House.

Ultimately, it didn't happen.

John Yoo, a very conservative constitutional lawyer, told my colleague, John McCormick, that it would have led to a constitutional crisis had it actually happened.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Is he -- this is a question for anyone.

Is he the most hardline person Donald Trump has in his close orbit?

Adam Harris: That's a contest, man.

Well, I think it probably between him and Pete Hegseth, where Pete Hegseth may be a little bit more fealty to the president as opposed to sort of an ideological vision of the MAGA project.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Right.

Adam Harris: But in terms of people who are really trying to push policies that are outside of the Constitution, like you said, things like suspending habeas corpus, where it's these would be unconstitutional policies, but they are willing to try them in means through executive orders and then ask for the legal -- Jeffrey Goldberg: Yes.

I mean, you could make the argument that the Hegseth-ordered boat strikes in the Caribbean are extra-constitutional.

Peter Baker: Yes.

That's one of the things they would impeach him on if they impeach him.

It's -- the argument is he has illegally used American power against people without due process.

But Miller, to point about politically good, what he might mean is he's politically good inside that White House.

He has, for ten years, managed to survive all the different purges, all the different ups and downs.

He got close to Jared Kushner, the son-in-law, and Ivanka Trump, the daughter, even though they're not, you know, as hardcore as he is.

He's been a very clever person to make - - you know, to survive inside a very toxic environment for a long time, and the president sees him as absolutely loyal.

Jeffrey Goldberg: Right.

Leigh Ann Caldwell: But when it comes to the politics of it, though, we're talking, you know, confrontation with Congress, and we're talking about Democrats who are going to be in control.

But I've talked to a lot of Republicans tonight in Congress, senior aides who are concerned about this.

I am told that senators went to the bat for Susie Wiles, that they -- wanted her to stay.

And that the -- while the party is trying to figure out what it looks like, Donald Trump is going to be in the White House while these Republicans are trying to figure out, you know, they're going to have to run again in two years.

Some of them are going to run statewide again, or maybe for the first time.

And the signals that Donald Trump is sending with Stephen Miller is no introspection of what just happened on Tuesday, where the rest of the Congress that was decimated for Republicans are trying to grapple with how to move forward.

Jeffrey Goldberg: No, it's not as if Donald Trump listened to the voice of the American people and internalized it and then said, you know, the answer is Stephen Miller.

No, the answer for Stephen Miller is pure MAGA to the finish line.

Stephen Hayes: Pure MAGA.

Yes, look, I think we're seeing YOLO Trump right now, and I think there were indications that this was coming before the election.

We saw him, in effect, say, yes, you know what?

I've always wanted to embrace Vladimir Putin.

I'm doing it now, lifting the sanctions.

He's coming to the G20.

I want to do these things.

You saw it with the golf course.

I want to build the golf course.

I don't really care what the court says.

I mean, it's not like -- Jeffrey Goldberg: So, you're saying that in the last quarter of the Trump interrupted presidency, the last two years, we're going to see the honest, quote/unquote, vision of what he actually wants.

Stephen Hayes: Pure, hardcore, undiluted MAGA with Stephen Miller.

It also comes at a time, we should point out, that the president seems to be willing to check out a bit more and not really as focused on governing the country, talking about, you know, the helipad and the ballroom.