>> Religion is taking center stage in the Trump administration.

President Trump is scheduled to live stream a Bible reading from the Oval Office tomorrow.

That's after a week-long dispute between the president and Pope Leo Trump posting an AI image of himself as Jesus Christ on social media and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth reciting a fabricated Bible verse during a Pentagon morning.

Prayer.

Joining us to break it all down.

Our Reverend Quincy Worthington, pastor of the Highland Park Presbyterian Church, Reverend Violent John Occur.

Executive director of Rockford, Urban Ministries.

Father David in Chaska stages with priest and a doctoral student philosophy.

Loyola University, Chicago and Stan Chu below a Catholic priest from Nigeria and Catholic Studies, professor at DePaul University.

Thanks to all of you for joining us.

A lot to talk about.

So as we mentioned, Pope Leo, President Trump, they have been publicly feuding with each The dispute stems from comments that the pope made regarding the war in Iran.

He said, quote, Today, as we all know, there was this threat against the entire people of Iran.

And this is truly unacceptable.

There are certainly issues here of international law.

But even more than that, it is a moral question for the good of the world's people, father.

David, let's start with you.

What were your reactions to Pope Leo's comments against the war in Iran?

>> Well, the United States is engaging in an imperial war of aggression against the people of Iran.

And Pope Leo is the vicar of Jesus Christ on Earth and Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace.

Jesus Christ said to his disciples on the sermon on the Mount, Blessed are the peacemakers for you.

Are the children of got?

Jesus Christ also said to his disciples, those who pick up the sword will perish by the sword.

And so and commenting on this aggressive war of the United States against Iran and which thousands of people have already died, including many innocent children.

Pope Leo has every right to condemn this war as a follower of Jesus Christ as the vicar of Jesus Christ.

And so to me, it's not surprising that he's taking up this message of peace well deserved criticism by Pope Leo against Donald Trump and against this presidency against this war.

>> At a turning Point USA event last week, Vice president JD Vance who is Catholic, said that Pope Leo was wrong to say that the gospel calls for the rejection of war.

Here's a bit of that.

>> When the pope says.

>> God is never on the side of those who wield the sword.

There is 1000 more than 1000 year tradition of just war theory.

Okay.

Now we can, of course, have disagreements about whether this or that conflict is just.

But I think that it's important in the same way that it's important for the vice president states to be careful.

When I talk about matters of public policy, I think it's very, very important for the pope to be careful when he talks about matters of theology.

>> Understand what's your reaction to Vance's argument?

Is the pope ignoring just war theory?

>> I don't think he that is.

The vice president understands the just war theory.

Yeah.

There's also a company in the just war theory.

What to call the principal off discrimination and the principle of proportionality discrimination requires that you only attack those who haven't talked to you and then you discriminate between fighters, noncombatants.

When you look Durham, winds Gaza, of the destruction Iran, when you look at destruction in Lebanon, that is no discrimination very indiscriminate wiping away whole neighborhoods.

That is not just war because when you talk about just war, you must also follow a just cause.

just means.

And you must work, you know, not to realize peace and that as precaution.

So there's a lack proportionality.

So.

>> He's very is quite shocking to me for the vice president to lecture.

>> The pope on theology and morality.

>> Is is the vice president interpreting the just war theory to his own benefit?

And by that, I mean, is he interpreting its this theory to mean war can were justifying this war basically in and their justification being that Iran can't be allowed to have a nuclear weapon.

But the point is that before base war that was in negotiation.

That was a conversation that was at that look.

And then suddenly that was the sudden >> imposition of a unilateral approach to Adam and this war.

>> And then after now they're going back again to negotiating.

Then you ask yourself the question when you talk about just war, that is what to call the moral authority of depression, who responsible for declaring war.

So we have the United Nations.

We have the Security Council.

What is happening ease a unilateral declaration of war without any provocation at this point.

>> Last Saturday following Pope Leo's comments, President Trump posted his truth.

Social any posted this AI generated image of himself that he's been debated.

Whether or not it is intended to depict himself as Jesus Christ.

He deleted the image after some pushback from members of the religious community.

He's later said that he felt it depicted him as a doctor.

Not Reverend Quincy, what is your reaction to that post?

>> Well, he's dressed as a doctor that I'm dressed like Channing Tatum today.

I mean, it's just absolutely absurd that he would say that.

And I think it's These aren't serious people.

I think it's been very interesting to see where some of our conservative brothers and sisters are drawing a line in the sand of a bridge too far.

As far as the blasphemy and the violation of the Christian tenants in the co-opting of the Christian So to that point, Franklin Franklin Graham, prominent American evangelist and missionary, he defended President Trump saying, quote, >> I do not believe President Trump would knowingly depict himself as Jesus Christ.

There were no spiritual references, know halo, no crosses, no angels.

It was a flag soldiers, a nurse, fighter planes, Eagles, the Statue of Liberty.

And I think this is a lot to do about nothing is the religious community reading too much into this?

>> I don't think so.

I think anytime that you're committing blasphemy, the religious community is can respond and proportionate.

Measures to So I don't think it's an overreaction to called blasphemy.

>> Members of the Christian right who are also normally big supporters of the president.

They've attacked him from his post as well.

Most notably Republican speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, who is personally asked the president to delete it or he did Reverend dominant come to you written by live on Were you surprised to see, you know, that Americans on the right were perhaps, you know, >> that they are indicating something of a red line for Trump on this issue.

>> I was surprised and I was encouraged to see that there are in some cases opportunities for folks to push back against a president, particularly and religious spaces.

But it was surprising that it was an idolatrous image rather than blasphemous radical policies.

That was the line that was too far.

And so we've from folks on the religious left have been calling for a long time on folks across the spectrum to live out our values in ways that hold accountable.

Those in leadership.

President Trump criticized broke.

Don't back to the the feud between the president and and the pope.

wrote on truth Social last week, quote.

>> Pope Leo is weak on crime and caps and terrible for foreign policy.

should get his act together as pope use common sense, stop catering to the radical left and focus on being great hope.

Not a politician.

Father David David, how do you react to that?

Well, I think it's important to say to Donald Trump that he is not God.

>> He portrays himself in this image as if he's Jesus Christ holding an orb of light healing someone.

Donald Trump is not God.

The United States is not the reign of God.

Donald Trump is going to die like every mortal in this world and it's going foot have to give an account before God of his actions.

And so God bless Pope Leo Foretelling.

Essentially Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin.

one of his statements recently that those Christians who wage war.

Are going to have to give an account before God and so they should go to confession.

They should repent of their sentence and they should turn towards Jesus Christ and towards Message of love.

And so thank you.

Pope Leo for calling out Christians who wage war despite the fact that they call themselves Christians, let us look to Jesus Christ and his eternal love for us on the cross.

How can we look at that action of Jesus Christ and then carry out mass murder in Iran in Lebanon and in Gaza.

It's totally unjust.

I think it's interesting to that here we have a president and an administration whose trying to make a Christian justification for war.

>> And then they're telling the pope is the vicar of Christ.

And, you know, the leader of the largest church in the world to stay in his lane.

Theologically right.

I mean, it's it's appalling to me.

It's appalling to me.

And I'm not mistaken.

Is the pope.

Also the head of state.

I mean, isn't he global leader in that capacity as well?

>> Well, okay.

And then there are other members of his administration's as well because during a Pentagon prayer breakfast last Wednesday, Secretary of war, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth discussed the recent rescue of a downed American pilot in Iran and recited a prayer that was used by the tactical the rescue team.

That pretty was later identified as a fabricated Bible verse from the movie Pulp Fiction in notably violence film Reverend Violent Hegseth.

You know, he sought to incorporate Christian values into the mayor.

Military.

Does this incident incident degrade?

He's in the administration's credibility here?

It does.

It's both embarrassing and shameful, too.

Miss, quote, Scripture.

But further and more offensive at to be prioritizing one religion over any others for our brave men and women and people in the military.

He's incredibly inappropriate.

We know we've seen religious prayer service held in the past, but this has taken it to a new level of Christian nationalism, which we denounce and many people of faith has been denouncing.

And so we would encourage a return to the normalcy of the military focusing on military matters and not bringing so much Christian nationalists, religious practices into the Department of Defense.

Yeah.

Because during the press conference even before that prayer service, the press conference where he was announcing you note explaining this rescue, he used a lot of references to Easter.

The pilot was downed on Good Friday.

Hid in a cave on Saturday was rescued Easter Sunday.

A pilot reborn.

He said, what do you think he's using religion here this way?

So.

I think it's a strategic attempts to manipulate people through religion who made themselves not no scripture as well.

And so what we're seeing right now, unfortunately, is a misuse and appropriation of that that's causing real harm and real pain.

We've seen Paula White, the spiritual adviser for the president is quoting scripture, comparing him to Jesus.

And I would call that out as idolatrous again.

I think all of these obsessive comparisons to Jesus when we're just talking about mortal human beings are rather than reading the text against ourselves and seeing how we can call ourselves into right relationship with one another to love our neighbor to return to themes of scripture that are true across many of our religious traditions.

We're seeing this real harm being caused by the misuse of scripture.

About 30 seconds left father stand.

What do you make of that of the same thing of as this insertion of of you Christian nationalism.

>> I think he's about to vicious off a world that we long for.

How do we build human civilization?

In that we choose to is civilization of love, which I think is at the heart of Christianity is the love of God love of neighbor the south.

Then also the use of power.

to do good Apollo on to your south.

And that's what we're seeing here.

So people use religion, then to power for themselves not to do Glenn.

That's yeah.

That's that's unfortunate where we'll have to leave Great to talk with all of you.

Reverend