>>We wanna know, "This is how much success we have had, this is how hard it was for us to do these things."

And then we really want to figure out the best way before we go onto other parts of the property and say, "Okay, we've got a successful model over here, let's apply it there."

Will there be an easy way?

No, but I am sure there will be harder ways than others.

>>Definitely a habitat community suitable for the wetter conditions with bald cypress, native Virginia switchcane as a mid story and less-dense understory, because typically it's wet.

Under normal precipitation, even in the summertime, there would still be surface water.

>>Production funding for Virginia Home Grown is made possible by... (forest birds vocalizing) (lively uplifting music) (lively uplifting music) (lively uplifting music) (lively uplifting music) >>Welcome to Virginia Home Grown!

The late garden author, Henry Mitchell, wrote, "Gardening is full of mistakes, almost all of them pleasant and some of them actually instructive."

I hope you have enjoyed learning new things this summer.

Later in the show, we will be answering your gardening questions, so please send them in via our website at vpm.org/vhg.

We always enjoy hearing from you.

Today, our focus is on conservation.

In the second half of our show, we will visit the Great Dismal Swamp National Wildlife Refuge to see the unique ecosystem and learn how it is managed.

But first, I travel to the State Arboretum of Virginia to meet the curator, T'ai Roulston, and talk about their work studying rare native trees and combating invasive plants.

Let's get going.

>>It's been a long time since I was able to stand next to a butternut tree, and I just marvel at this one.

I know conservation is one of the primary goals of what I call Blandy Farm.

>>Yeah.

>>And so many people don't know we have a state arboretum.

So how many acres is the Orland E. White Arboretum?

>>So the whole property of Blandy Experimental Farm is 700 acres which is really one square mile.

>>Okay.

>>And the arboretum in the middle occupies the central 180 acres.

And we are right in the edge of that arboretum acreage right now.

So we have massive plantings of ginkgos and pawpaws and then these little known plants like the butternut here that is of conservation importance.

But most people really don't know anything about it.

>>Yeah.

>>And so this gives us a chance to talk about some of the roles that the arboretum has here in plant conservation.

>>Here is this very important tree, this rare tree almost.

And it's right by the entrance.

I can hear 17.

>>Yeah.

>>So it's a stark difference between the highway and then coming here to this beautiful open meadow that we're at.

>>Yeah, it is kind of like coming from behind the curtain backstage where everything's going on and suddenly the world changes.

Once you step in here, that sound quickly goes away.

And the arboretum opens up here and you get to immerse yourself.

And we have 5,500 trees and shrubs.

>>Fantastic.

>>That are out here, and over 500 species that are distributed all across the arboretum.

So lots to explore.

>>I call arboretums living libraries for trees.

>>Yeah, it's absolutely true.

And we like to try to figure out how you can open those books and figure out what's in each of those trees.

>>Yes.

But this tree here, you're actually in a conservation program focused on this tree.

>>Yeah, so there are a lot of trees that are declining, and there's a movement through the country to go ahead and look and recognize what trees might be declining, and then try to get as much represented in living collections as possible.

So everyone might know about seed collections and frozen somewhere in Norway.

>>Yes.

>>Or other places, or in Colorado, but this is really having a living collection.

And to know what botanical gardens, what arboreta are growing trees that came from where.

>>Yes.

>>And so we are trying to build up a collection now with butternuts to represent Virginia.

So we really want to go around Virginia, collect seeds from known locations of butternut, plant them here and try to keep them going.

We are kind of at the southern, near the southern and eastern range of the butternut.

And so the butternuts in this region are really experiencing some of the warmer temperatures that they do throughout its range.

And so the ones here are probably more adapted to those higher temperatures than they are say in New York.

>>Yes.

>>And other places further north.

So it becomes more important to make sure those genes are staying in kind of a living gene pool rather than just say, okay, well there are a whole bunch of 'em in New York.

Let's just let New York send seeds all over the place.

>>Right.

>>You need to keep those living collections all around.

>>Interesting.

And this tree, from our perspective here, looks good but it really is failing.

The canopy is thinning, it's starting to get a lot of insects coming in.

And one of them unfortunately is the spotted lantern fly.

>>This particular tree is definitely having a lot of problems.

In the arboretum, there are only a few trees that the spotted lantern flies really seem to be going after.

So number one of course, the tree of heaven.

>>Yes.

>>Nobody cares if the lantern flies were to wipe wipe 'em all out.

>>Enjoy.

>>Unfortunately, they're not doing that.

>>Yes.

(chuckling) >>But the other ones they really go for, they go for black walnut.

And then I discovered last year they were really picking on butternut.

And when you look into this tree now, you not only see the dead branches, but actually a lot of little witches broom in some of the branches.

Whether that's from spotted lantern fly damage or that combined with the drought.

>>Yeah.

>>We are in drought here.

>>It's a one-two punch.

>>Yeah, it's at least a one-two punch.

And I mean, the main thing that seems to be influencing the distribution of butternut and causing it to retract is actually an introduced fungus that was called butternut canker.

>>Ah.

>>And that is what seems to be hitting it over much of the range.

>>Yeah.

>>And that seems to be a real problem for it.

>>And its fellow family member black walnut is also dealing with a thousand canker disease.

So these trees, our native trees are dealing with, again, not just invasive plants but invasive diseases and pathogens coming in.

>>Yeah.

>>As well as pests.

>>Yeah, and very, very hard to control for that.

I mean, we can't go around the forest inoculating trees.

>>No.

(chuckling) >>You really just have to hope that you get enough resistance in the population that there is something to draw on for the future for these plants.

>>Yeah.

Community programs are so important for any arboretum or botanic gardens.

So tell me about what is offered here at the arboretum.

>>So we have one area here that we call the community forest.

And we have planted about 400 trees.

>>Oh wow.

>>In there.

We've had school groups from all the regional schools come in and plant these trees.

And so they're out there with their trowels.

>>Oh wonderful.

>>And their hands getting all dirty and putting the trees in the ground.

>>Yes.

>>And there's another area too that I'd like to like to show you to see some of the ongoing research that we have right now.

>>Okay.

>>In a totally different context.

>>Sounds great.

>>Let's go take a look.

>>You know, T'ai, you said you were bringing me to another community forest project but this is a forest of tubes.

What's going on?

>>I know, I could've taken you anywhere in the arboretum, any of the beautiful places, and I pretty much took you to the leaky basement.

>>Yes.

(chuckling) >>And to look and appreciate what we have here, you have to think both what it's been, what it's come from.

>>Right.

>>And where we're hoping to get it.

So what it was, was a completely entangled invasive shrubs like you see across the street.

>>Oh, that's a mess over there.

>>Yeah, completely dark underneath.

No plants coming through.

There's not gonna become a forest over there anytime soon.

>>No way.

Absolutely no way.

>>And then what we're trying to get here is a forest.

And how do we get a native forest out of that invasive shrub patch?

>>Right.

>>And so what we did was we brought in a forestry mulcher to go ahead and wipe everything out.

And the only native trees in this whole six acre area were those sparse trees that you still see standing.

And so what we did was we got a whole bunch of tree seedlings and then we came out here, we had a whole bunch of volunteers.

So over four days of planting with about 80 different volunteers.

>>Fantastic.

>>Came out here and then helped us plant here.

>>So what's the purpose of the white tubes?

>>So the white tubes are to protect from deer.

>>Ah.

>>So.

>>Okay.

>>We have a very robust community of deer out out here that will feast on any of the trees that we planted.

So we've planted oaks and pawpaw, we've got walnuts out here, we've got maples and dogwoods.

And we even have our white walnuts around here.

>>Yes, our butternuts.

>>Our butternuts are out here.

But this is not just a single planting as like we know what we're doing.

This is really, this is an experimental planting to figure out how to do this.

And so we have plots in which we've taken off the mulch and put grasses in hoping the grass can suppress.

We have plots in which we have the tubes, we have plots without tubes where we put electric fence to try to keep the deer out.

>>Okay.

>>So we've got a long ways to go.

But if you look closely, you'll see some of the trees are coming through the tree tubes already.

>>Yeah, already.

>>And hopefully everything is good for them to continue going and get above deer height.

And then maybe in 10 years it starts to look forest ish.

>>Yes.

>>Out here.

>>Yes.

>>20 years, hopefully it really looks like a forest.

>>Excellent.

>>But we are just trying to figure out how to do this for ourselves and for other people to learn how to take care of invasives.

>>I applaud the support that UVA has given to this project and I thank you and the others for taking on such a huge endeavor.

Having such horrible invasively covered spaces, this is so challenging and we need to find a tool, a method to be able to control them.

I wish this nothing but the best success.

Thank you for taking it on.

>>You're welcome.

And thank you for coming out and sharing the story of what we're trying to do here.

>>The research being carried out by our state arboretum will provide valuable insight as communities take the first steps toward ecosystem restoration.

And T'ai is here with me now to talk more about persistent plants even deer don't like.

But before we get started, remember to send in your gardening questions on our website at vpm.org/vhg.

Well T'ai, I will tell you, you've brought the most unique set of plants to share.

When we think about invasive plants and plants that are, say, have their attributes to kind of find their way in an ecosystem or in their environment, these plants you have on the table sure have their their ways, which is why I have gloves on.

(laughing) >>And why I probably should have my gloves on.

>>Yes, so to me, what is your first one that you wanna start with?

And I'll say the worst one.

>>Yeah, so let's start with a bit of autumn olive here.

So this is one of the plants that people may very well know.

So usually you're trying to figure out how to get plants to grow.

This is one of the plants you're trying to figure out how to get rid of.

Now, what is it about these invasive plants that really change our ecosystems?

How do they survive the different pressures so much better than everything else?

Well, the first thing they have to survive is deer.

So deer are a major, major force in our suburban areas, our forested areas, our open areas.

And so almost all the invasive plants have really strong thorns there.

So that's their way of getting around the, trying to avoid the deer.

>>Exactly.

>>They're making it a little unpalatable.

And then how do they find all of those places?

How does the autumn olive get everywhere?

And the berries that are on here, the birds are very happy to go and consume the berries, and then leave them wherever they go.

>>Wherever they go, yes.

>>So that's, and then one other thing to notice is that most of the leaves here of the autumn olive, and you'll see this with some of the other plants, there's very little insect damage.

>>True, true.

>>So they're just not suffering much insect damage, which also means that they're not feeding our insects, which means that those insects are not getting anything from them to then feed other organisms.

>>Kind of a lost space in the ecosystem.

>>It really is, might as well be plastic plants, out there making little shaded areas, because they're not feeding very much.

>>Well our next one here, let's move on.

I'm gonna do the glove part, and I'll bring it on here.

This is one a lot of people love.

>>Yeah, so this is osage orange.

So this is a, it's a plant that's very common around here.

Now, it's actually native to North America, but only to panhandle Oklahoma, Texas area.

But it got moved around to be living fence posts.

And it's very, very persistent in our landscapes.

Now, so if you know those big green balls that are the fruit you see in the fall that nothing can eat, that's the osage orange.

And again, you'll notice the leaves have no insect damage on them.

And if you look closely, you'll find that they are also completely loaded with thorns.

So they are, in the same way as the autumn olive, well, well defended.

>>Yes, smart plant, but let's have him go back to where he belonged in my mind.

Well, this one here is not one most people know about.

>>No, and hopefully it stays that way.

So this is buckthorn.

So it is only invasive in a few parts of Virginia, but anybody from the upper Midwest will know it well as the scourge of the upper Midwest.

So this is, again, leaves mostly without damage.

And then all of the little branches have very sharp thorns on them.

They have blueberries in the fall that are also dispersed by the birds.

And just like everything that we've looked at so far, if you go, and they get clipped off, or something gets bush hogged, they just sprout right back, right back up.

So they're persistent in not being consumed, persistent, even if you go ahead and and chop 'em off.

>>Yeah, people don't realize that many of our invasive plants came here because they have attributes that gardeners liked.

We've kind of built, created our own problem.

But when we talk about, to me, persistent plants, I wanna pull this baby out right here, which I think is one of the worst plants to be able to manage as an invasive in trying to remove it from the environment in any way, shape, or form.

>>Yeah, absolutely.

So this is the Tree of Heaven, or Ailanthus.

And this is, it's getting a lot of publicity now because of spotted lantern fly, this is the main host for spotted lantern fly, which is spreading very quickly through the US.

>>It's coming south, it's here in Richmond.

>>It's all over up at the arboretum.

Now this plant is a little different than the other ones in that if you look, you don't see any spines.

That is not it's a little secret formula.

Here, the secret formula is really in the leaves.

So highly toxic compounds in the leaves that make it unpalatable to insects.

Again, you see nothing's feeding on the leaves.

But also unpalatable to deer.

And so they, the deer, don't have much to do with it either.

I mentioned with the other plants, if you chop 'em, they resprout.

Well if you can, this is one that's been chopped off previously.

And then just where you chopped it once, now we've got two, two stems coming out.

And it will just do that over and over again.

So you can get exponential stem growth that way on Ailanthus.

>>Exactly, which is why you have to use a systemic approach to control this plant.

Well, we've got one minute left, so let's bring over two of our non-natives.

I mean, it's two of our natives, excuse me.

>>Yeah, so about the only trees that you see coming up amidst all of these invasives, and surviving the deer, are ones that have the same characteristics, thorns.

So this is our black locust right here.

But then if you look at some of the leaves, you see lots of bites, so it's actually being fed upon by insects.

>>Which is really encouraging.

And then this one, oh my.

>>And then this one.

Now this is another one of our natives, honey locust.

I think you can see what it's claim to fame is.

So yeah, those are the daggers of the thorn world there.

So that's what it takes to be able withstand that deer pressure and make it in these little islands of invasive plants.

So only a couple of our natives are actually able to do that, withstand it.

>>People need to realize that plants do have mechanisms to be able to survive, and thorns and prickles are just some of these mechanisms.

So I thank you for bringing these to light, and also for sharing the importance of how our native plants are being utilized by the insects.

And the non-natives were nice and clean and green.

So thank you very much, T'ai.

>>You're welcome.

>>And now we're gonna get ready to answer your questions.

But first, Shana Williams has a tip to share on how to install a drip irrigation system for your house plants or garden using solar power.

(electronic music) >>Today we're going to talk about conserving energy by using solar power to water your plants.

When you're going away, it's a great way to water your household plants and not have to worry about someone coming in the house to do it for you.

You just need to have some sunlight.

We have a solar panel kit, which has a on and off switch.

It also has a timer attached to it.

We have a filter here.

We have our drip-line tips, we have our T's.

We also have the stand and our water hose lines.

Now as we're assembling this, this is hot water and it's important that you put your tubes in hot water.

It softens the tube on the end, so when I go to attach it, I'm not struggling to put that on.

It'll slide on very easily.

So, I'm going to simply take this into this tube here and I'm going to attach it to my out line.

Slide that on.

I also have my tube here, which has already been softened and I'm going to attach it to my filter.

So, as this is in the water, and this is our sensors that tell us what our water level is.

And when these are in the water and the water level is low, it'll start to beep.

Add more water to your container.

So, have these attached.

Make sure this is in a sunny place.

Poke those near the root system of my plants.

Make sure it's turned on.

And voila, this is a great way for you to water your plants at home.

But here at the farm, we can use that on the small level.

We also will use it on the medium level by attaching the water hose lines to our small plants that are growing.

Or we'll use it on the large level, which is high pressure, larger batteries, larger solar panel.

Try this at home.

I'm sure you'll enjoy it and it'll give you a lot of freedom.

Have fun.

>>Shana and other members of our team are on Facebook right now answering your questions.

So, please connect with us on there or visit our website at vpm.org/vhg to submit more questions.

Amyrose Foll has joined us in the studio to help answer questions too.

So, welcome Amyrose.

We're so glad you're here.

>>Thank you.

I'm so glad I'm back again.

Thank you so much for that amazing demonstration.

One of the things that I wanted to ask you, because of what you were talking about there what are some other deterrents for deer as far as native plants, if you're going to try to naturalize your garden or yard?

>>Yeah, you know, the main kinds of defenses that the plants have are either, you know, mechanical ones like those thorns that I was talking about.

There can be a bit of texture with like really hairy leaves on there.

And then it's really, you know, the chemistry that's a really bad taste.

Some of 'em actually can be toxic, but to deer.

But it's hard to know which ones,- >>Yes.

>>'cause things you would say that I would never touch that and the insects would never touch that.

You find that the deer will eat.

So, like tomatoes for instance, right?

Who would've thought or squash?

They only have specialist insects.

The deer still go for those.

So, you have have to look up, you know, go into a guide and look and see what are the plants that deer just don't touch.

>>Very interesting.

>>And another thing too is to look for ones with milky sap, which is easy.

>>Oh, yeah.

>>You can do that on those on the fly.

Just out in the field.

Just break a little leaf.

I'm not saying break the plant, and if it has a milky sap, you know, the deer won't touch that one.

>>Yeah, so the Osage orange is one of those.

So, that's in addition to like milkweed.

There are a few others.

I like that.

>>Very interesting.

Let's see what we have.

>>I always tell people to feel their way through a garden center.

>>Oh, interesting.

I love that.

So, Gail wrote in and she was asking about seed collecting.

>>Yeah.

>>Sorry about that.

So she said, "I'm collecting seeds to store from my plants in my garden.

How should I store these over the winter?

I've heard to put it in an envelope in the refrigerator.

I've also heard to put it in a glass jar sealed tightly and then place them in the fridge."

What are your recommendations for storing seeds?

>>So, I go for in wet soil in the refrigerator or outside for most everything.

It's just, you know that's what gets, you know, so many of them through.

And it's probably the most reliable if I don't know a specific needs of an individual plant.

>>Yeah, whether it's recalcitrant or orthodox.

That makes sense, thank you.

>>Well, Amyrose, you do a lot of seed saving too.

So what are the methods that you use?

>>I do, I don't ever throw any seeds in the refrigerator, because we're opening our refrigerators and the humidity and temperature fluctuates too much.

So, I make sure that all of my seeds are dried to about three to 5% moisture content.

>>Moisture.

>>Sorry.

And then I put them in the freezer.

And it's been pretty reliable for me with orthodox-type seeds.

A few years ago I planted my Mr. Stripey tomatoes from seeds I saved in 2001.

>>Great job.

>>And that was just, I think it was in 2019 or 2020.

Sprouted it just fine, I had a great crop.

>>Excellent.

>>Freezer is the way to go for me.

>>All right, that's a good tip.

>>I've never heard of planting or saving your seeds in wet soil.

That's really interesting.

>>Just damp, so you don't want it get too wet.

But many of them need that to get through dormancy.

>>That is true.

I mean a lot of them need that in the dark to sprout too.

Depending on what you've got.

And there is such a varied form and habit and needs of everything.

>>Yeah.

>>That's really interesting.

I love that.

All right, so Stephanie wrote in.

She said, "We've been blessed with beautyberry in our wooded property and wanna share some with a friend."

I love beautyberry, it's so pretty.

>>So pretty.

>>And they are actually delicious.

And a lot of people that keep pet parrots like to feed their parrot dehydrated beautyberries.

>>Oh really?

>>Did you know those?

>>I did not know that.

>>Found that out with someone asking for me or asking me for some online.

"The plants have been set or have now set buds and we're looking forward to their beautiful purple show.

When is the best time of year to dig up a few to share and relocate them?"

>>That would actually be when they go dormant.

They're a deciduous plant.

So, after the, you know, we've enjoyed the beauty of the seeds and all the leaves have turned color and fallen and it's in that dormant state is when we wanna dig those plants up and move them.

And I like to do it in the fall, because fall is the best time for planting, because it enables the plant in its new location to have the roots continue to grow, 'cause as long as our soil temperatures stay above 40 degrees the plants will keep growing.

The roots will keep growing.

Even though the plant is dormant.

>>Yeah, and the other reason it's so good with that when they go dormant in the fall is that then they get going in the spring when they're ready to.

>>Yes.

>>And that's why we like to do so much of our tree planting in the fall, 'cause that way if they're alive in the spring, they go on their own schedule and that just gives 'em a good headstart.

>>Yeah.

>>You know, that's one thing that I've noticed.

I watch people walking around say a local nursery, especially, in the spring, because I like to plant in the fall as well.

And they will be at the spring or at the nursery center in the springtime and they want to get the biggest, most vibrant plants.

>>Yeah.

>>And in my mind I would think you would want ones that have not started to open up.

Do you think that, that would be the best course to go?

>>Yes.

>>It's not a substitute for the fall, like you said, but I feel like people think that the bigger and the better and the more flowers and buds, the better they're gonna get.

>>Oh, take the ones that's got the tightest buds that are still I'll say somewhat dormant to fully dormant or is the most I'll say behind on the schedule compared to everybody else.

I'm not saying take the wilty one, okay?

The one that didn't get the water, but to definitely take it, because it's gonna have transplant shock.

We might as well and it's going to get behind.

So, let's not start it ahead for it to then fall so far behind.

>>Another thing, some people I've noticed don't particularly do, they'll either plant after it just rained, which is gonna reduce the available oxygen in the soil or they won't water enough in afterwards to reduce those spaces between the soil and the roots.

>>Yes.

>>And that's really vital I think to go along with all of that, making sure you're getting ones that are still dormant if possible.

>>Yes, well when planting and, T'ai, when you transplant a tree you use a lot of water to settle all the soil around the roots.

>>Yep, as soon as we, even those big plantings that we do with, you know, 300 trees at once, we've got a 500 gallon tank out there and it's just each one gets a full, >>Really?

>>Yeah, gets a full watering can, 'cause we can't get out there again.

We're planting out in outlying areas and it's like, good luck, tree.

We're giving you your best start so, yeah.

>>So, are you using two gallon watering cans or larger?

>>I think they're about three gallon.

>>Three gallons, yeah.

>>Yeah >>Because I used to dig my holes, fill it with water, not just for the perk, but just to get the water underneath the tree that I was planting.

So, as the capillary action brought the water back up, mind you, there was an interface issue between the root ball and the surrounding soil.

But at least I've got the surrounding soil, you know, having some moisture as the water is drawn back up through the soil profile so.

>>I have a little bit of a curve ball for you.

>>Okay.

>>Cynthia wrote in, she wants to go away from the deer.

"What kind of rabbit-proof plants do you recommend?"

Because she's not having problems with the deer, but the rabbits are a furry menace.

>>Ooh.

>>Oh, they're so cute.

>>They are so cute.

>>Wow, yeah, so that's not one we've had to deal with.

So, I actually, I'm not so sure on which are the rabbit proof?

>>No, I'm not either.

I usually just put little fences around.

I create barriers to prevent the rabbit from getting to a plant, but I've never really intentionally said, "What's a rabbit proof plant?"

I really don't think there is one.

>>Yeah, I mean they certainly hit some plants a lot harder than others that, you know, have had grow alfalfa and the rabbits would just- >>Mow it down.

>>go all over it.

But we haven't had much problem with trees in rabbits though.

>>Yeah, what is your favorite tree at the arboretum?

>>My favorite tree?

Ooh, I don't, it's kind of, I guess this is a preview for another show, but I think it's the pawpaw.

I think, I am really a pretty big fan of the pawpaw.

>>They are delicious too.

I wasn't really familiar with them until about 15 years ago and they're one of my favorites too.

Yeah, they're absolutely delicious.

>>And guess what?

We'll be featuring em on next month's "Virginia Home Grown."

So, tune in.

>>So, you all need to come back and see us.

That's wonderful.

>>Amyrose, that's wonderful.

We've run outta time for these questions, but thank you so much, T'ai, for joining us.

I greatly appreciate it and I'm encouraging people to keep sending the questions in, 'cause we have more to come and we wanna answer all the questions we can.

So, we just really appreciate you, T'ai, providing us with a glimpse of the conservation efforts of what's going on in the arboretum.

And I thank you so much.

>>Great.

>>It's wonderful work.

>>Great, thank you for having me here.

>>And now, Serome Hamlin takes us to the Great Dismal Swamp National Wildlife Refuge to meet Refuge Manager Chris Lowie and learn about the conservation tools used to protect the 113,000 acre property.

>>Can you tell us a little bit about this trail that we are on now?

>>Yeah, so we're on the Washington Ditch Trail which is an old logging road and it's named after George Washington.

Yep, when he arrived here on the swamp, sort of as a land surveyor in 1763, he saw the landscape with fertile soil, good for farming and to do that, you have to get some of the water out of the swamp and so the Washington Ditch was dug to get water out of the swamp and also irrigate, log the forest and then farm the land.

>>And there's many trails throughout the refuge and we're coming up on a boardwalk now.

>>Yeah, so the boardwalk that goes into the forest off of this road is called the Dismal Town Boardwalk because when George Washington and his partners had the company here, the Dismal Swamp Land Company, they established Dismal Town.

This was their hub for their operations.

And so the boardwalk will take you through the forest a little bit, give you a better feel for the different habitat types that exist in the larger refuge area.

>>Yeah 'cause right now I'm looking and it looks more like a hardwood forest instead of what you would think a swampy area would be.

>>Yeah, that's right and when you say the great Dismal Swamp, it isn't like a typical southern swamp like you'd find in Florida and such.

It is a forested wetland and so there is slight elevation changes and the higher ground has more of a deciduous forest and then you can see areas where it's more swamp like.

>>So the ecology changes as you're walking along.

>>That's right, absolutely.

>>Oh Chris, you can really see the transition here now and now and it's starting to look like what I would imagine a swamp being.

Can you tell us a little bit about the trees and everything here from the transition?

>>Yeah, so a little bit different forest community, a lot of bald Cyprus, more ferns, as a ground cover, the native Virginia switchcane as an understory vegetation.

And so yeah, it's definitely more swamp like and less dense understory because typically it's wet.

>>Oh yeah, and yes, I can definitely see how dry it is, but it does still look and feel like a swamp.

And I know the great Dismal Swamp has a ecological significance, but I understand it also has a great historical significance.

Can you tell us a little bit about what happened from years ago?

>>Certainly, first off, the indigenous peoples lived off the swamp for food and resources, but at one time, we had generations of freedom seekers, enslaved people that came and lived here in the swamp for several generations and this was freedom for them.

>>Yes, so the swamp was no man's land so they found refuge here.

>>Correct, yep.

>>And I hear there is one other feature that a lot of people come here to see.

>>Oh, you must be talking about Lake Drummond.

>>Can you show us the lake?

>>Oh, absolutely, can take you right out there.

>>Okay, let's go.

Wow, Chris, we finally made it out to the lake and it is magnificent.

>>We call it the heart of the swamp.

It's so important for the ecological integrity of this ecosystem to keep the water in the lake for ecological purposes to try to keep this piece soil wet.

It is a swamp and so the water is the driver.

>>So how large is this lake?

>>It's 3,100 acres, about three miles across any way you cross it 'cause it's almost perfectly round.

>>And another thing I noticed too though is the unique color of the water.

Can you give us some insight on why it is this color?

>>Yeah, sure, we call it black water and it's really because of all the groundwater that filters its way through the soil, which is organic soil or peat soil.

So that acts like a teabag.

When you make tea and you put that teabag in clear water, it produces that darker color.

And probably the most logical, or at least scientifically speaking way that the lake was formed is actually from a deep burning peat fire.

This area might have been on fire.

It burned down through that peat soil down to the sand layer 'cause it is a sand bottom.

It's only maximum six feet deep and we have about six to seven feet of that peat soil that is actual fuel and can burn right down to the water table or down to the sand layer.

>>As far as conservation, how does this area get managed?

>>Our priorities are to restore the hydrology of the swamp, to try to slow the drainage, re-wet the peat soil for the benefit of the soil and the benefit of the forest.

And then with that, we can manage the water for specific diversity of habitat types, which then supports a diversity of wildlife.

That's what we focus on.

First, we protect it 'cause it is federal property, it's protected.

We conserve it and enhance it where we can.

>>And you've mentioned wildfires.

>>I'm glad that you brought that up.

I actually have folks on staff that are wild land firefighters.

And so if we have a wildfire out here on the refuge, they will go and attack that fire and try to put it out.

We also do controlled burns or called prescribed burns where we wait for the right weather, wind, humidity conditions so that we can actually set wild land fire on the ground and that's a tool we use also to manage our habitats.

The water management and the fire management are both tools to manage the habitat and sometimes we get wildfires that get beyond our capacity.

Folks that come out here will see there is not a mature forest bordering where we're standing right now and that's because a large wildfire came through last in 2011.

Fire is part of the natural ecosystem.

It's just a matter of how severe these fires get.

I mean, with the swamp being dried out, it's more susceptible to more catastrophic fire.

So what we're trying to do through restoring the hydrology to control burns is reduce that impact of wildfire when it comes.

>>And then now everything is starting to regrow so you're not gonna have the mature forest, but in the future, what do you expect this area to start looking like?

Is it going to get back to where it was or how do you see the park looking in the future?

>>So we are managing it for a forest.

The Dismal Swamp has always been a forest as far as any documents of it.

It's a forest as well.

And we want to always make it a forest for the wildlife, habitat for the wildlife.

And so we're managing it for it.

We've planted trees to try to stimulate the regrowth with species that we prefer.

And again, we're also managing the water to allow that forest to grow 'cause the trees aren't gonna grow underwater so we do actually try to keep the water a little lower to allow it to grow.

>>This is a really beautiful park and I'm glad we made it out to see the lake and I thank you again for taking us on this tour.

>>Yeah, thank you.

Hopefully this will give people some information that it's a refuge for wildlife, it's a refuge for people and it's not dismal at all.

Come on out and see us.

>>Last March, I toured the swamp, and was impressed by the rich diversity of the plants and wildlife found within.

I encourage you to go, as well.

The site is accessible to everyone.

And today, Chris is with us to talk more about some of the elements of this unique and valuable forested wetland.

But before we begin, remember to send in your questions through our website.

VPM.org/vhg Or, through Facebook.

Well, Chris, you and I have been talking about the swamp for a few months now.

And I'd like to ask, what is the single-most important element in the swamp?

If you could boil it down to one thing?

>>It's the water.

(both chuckling) Everything revolves around water.

Yeah, it's the life blood of the swamp, it really is.

To support the vegetative communities, the diversity of the habitats, to support the diversity of the wildlife.

>>Well, I'm gonna ask, 'cause it's been dry this summer.

And so, the swamp is not as wet as it has been.

How does that effect the diversity and climate, that all of the ecosystem and the wildlife, and such.

>>Yeah well, the thing is that we, it has a natural hydrologic cycle, right?

Through the seasons, it runs through the seasons.

It has its wet season, its dry season.

We're certainly in the dry season.

And I think the thing with, like this year, with the reduced precipitation, the swamp is very dry.

The water table is low.

And I think the most significant impact that could cause, is if we get that lightening strike, and the wildfire starts, that soil that we have, that peat soil dries out, and is very susceptible to burning.

But as far as the forest goes, it's very resilient.

It can tolerate the drier and the wetter conditions.

>>Well, speaking of the peat, you've got jars of water over there.

And you shared with me that first jar, represents what comes into the swamp.

>>That's right, this is just a jar of water that rainfall, and it flows into the swamp, off the Suffolk Escarpment.

Which is actually a geological formation on the coastal plain of Virginia.

And that water comes off of that little hill, and into the swamp.

As it goes through the swamp- >>Encounters the peat.

>>It encounters the peat soil.

Which is just the leaves and twigs that have fallen to the ground over the years, and not decomposed.

>>Because it's in water.

>>Because it's wet.

>>No oxygen.

>>No oxygen.

And less decomposers.

And over time, as it runs through the swamp, it gets darker and darker.

It's like a tea, a tea bag.

>>Steeping away.

>>Steeping, right.

>>Yeah.

>>And so it gets, it just gets dark as it flows generally west to east, or southeast.

>>How does it affect, I'll say, the aquatic life, though?

All the tannins in that water?

>>Yeah, so it's very acidic.

And so actually, like Lake Drummond.

It's very acidic water.

It makes it low productivity.

So there's not a lot of microorganisms, the primary producers.

That allow for the fish to eat, and so forth.

So it is low productivity.

And the sunlight can't reach the bottom to grow the plants, the aquatic vegetation.

>>But the water itself is still very pure?

>>Yeah, it is.

It's not dirty, it's not murky.

It's just the way it is.

And there's literature that says, hundreds of years ago they would barrel this water up.

They would put it in barrels, and take it across the ocean.

Because it didn't have, it wouldn't- >>Go bad.

>>Go bad, and get algae'd up.

Because again, the low productivity.

>>Excellent.

>>Yeah.

>>Well, I know one thing that will grow in that water.

And that is Bald Cypress.

Which is one of the primary plants of the swamp.

And I see that you've brought a Bald Cypress knee to us.

>>Move these over here.

>>I don't think everybody is familiar with this plant.

>>Right, so Bald Cypress historically, was one of the dominate forest types in the swamp.

And used, it was timbered, and it was logged out to build homes, and ships, and barrels, and things.

And so, one of the unique things is, these can live in water.

In a lot of water.

These Bald Cypress will grow out of Lake Drummond, they could be four to 600 years old, if you're to get out there and see those.

So this is called a Cypress Knee, which is part of the root system of the cypress.

Because it grows in the water, and there's very limited oxygen, the root system will actually grow back up out of the ground into the air, and capture the oxygen to feed the tree.

>>Interesting, because that water of course, has so little oxygen in it that's available for the plant.

>>Right.

>>That's interesting.

Do you know about how many Bald Cypress trees you have in, I'll even say in the Lake Drummond area?

I'm not giving y'all 113,000 acres.

Hundreds?

Thousands?

>>Hundred, thousands, yeah.

Yeah, there's thousands.

And as far as forest community, in the 113,000 acres, we do have about 10,000 acres of still Bald Cypress and Tupelo Gum forest, which like that wetter condition.

>>That's fantastic.

So what else is living in this high water environment?

With these Bald Cypress and acidic water?

What else wildlife-wise can survive in that?

You're saying the fish were low.

Well what about our more terrestrial critters and such?

>>So we have 47 different species of mammals, okay?

And a large population of reptiles and amphibians.

Turtles, snakes, lizards, salamanders.

Because it is that swampy environment.

>>Mm-hm, mm-hm.

I don't know, I don't wanna walk through there at night.

(both laughing) >>No, it's awfully dark and, yes.

You never know what you might run into at night, for sure.

>>Exactly.

I know there are a lot of "Beware of Bear" signs around.

(laughing) When I was there in March, so- >>Oh, come on.

(both chuckling) We do have the highest density of bears in the state.

It's a very good bear habitat.

But, it's okay.

The bears, they're as scared of you as you are of them.

>>I don't know about that.

(chuckling) But you said you have the highest bear density.

But you were basically an island in the middle of a highly dense population of the state.

The Hampton Roads, the whole Virginia Beach area is so densely populated.

And yet, there's the Great Dismal Swamp Wildlife Refuge.

>>Yes, oasis of forest habitat that does provide.

And being in the mid-Atlantic, it's just in the migratory corridor.

We have, really our habitat for birds.

Song birds, raptors, waterfowl.

And if you're lucky and you go out to Lake Drummond in the winter time, you can see thousands of tundra swans, or snow geese, just roosting on Lake Drummond.

I have been fortunate to see it twice, it's beautiful.

>>Sounds beautiful.

You know, we're gonna end with that vision.

Because I think that's a great way for people to think of Lake Drummond.

So, thank you for being with us.

>>Wonderful, thank you.

>>Next, we're going to answer more of your questions.

But first Dr. Robyn Puffenbarger explains how pollinator gardens create good habitat for insects in your landscape.

Which can help support insects, birds, mammals, and other animals.

Even a small number of native plants can make a difference.

(bright music) >>Big-picture conservation needs to always start at the base level with your plants.

If you have the right habitat with your plants, then you can bring in insects, animals like birds, reptiles, amphibians, and mammals.

One of the ways you can start is with a simple pollinator garden, and we're here at Staunton, Virginia in Montgomery Hall Park where they are trying to provide the right plants to conserve the insects and build habitat as part of an ecosystem.

One of the plants featured in this garden is hoary mountain mint, a very easy plant to find and grow in your garden.

You can even plant it directly in your lawn or with fescue grass, and it will compete against that very well, growing into a nice, mounded plant that will expand over time, providing the habitat for the insects.

The plant grows very nicely with these nice, green leaves.

This is where it gets its hoary name, the hoary white, and then has these nice, light purple flowers where the insects will land for their pollination.

It's a very easy plant to find and grow.

And in this garden, we also have some other nice natives, including wild basil, yarrow, the Rudbeckias, or black-eyed brown-eyed Susan complex, and whorled rosinweed, another nice, yellow flower that blooms a little later in the summer.

As you start to look and think about what you'd like to conserve, think about the plants that will build your ecosystem.

You can then get the seeds locally or the plants from a native nursery.

Local nurseries and native plant nurseries really have changed over the last few decades and constantly think about the ethics of where they source their material.

If you're concerned at all, just ask your local nursery provider where they get their seeds and plants, and they will explain how they use best practices.

That is just standard operating procedure now in most native plant nurseries.

Also, sometimes you can find a friend who might have some plants or seeds to share.

Just make sure before you take anything from someone else's property that you get permission for the seeds or for the plants.

So as you think about what you'd like to conserve in your garden, whether it's birds, reptiles, amphibians, or insects, think about what plants you can add to provide the ecosystem that they need to grow and thrive.

>>I've enjoyed sharing different conservation efforts going on across the state today.

Making a difference starts with a few small steps which can begin now, because fall is perfect time for planting.

So, now we've got so many good questions to get to, Chris, but I think I'd like to start with this one.

What are the biggest challenges in managing such a large, diverse area?

>>Oh, that is a good one.

It's actually the trade-offs of management.

For some of the management we wanna do, there could be that short-term loss before the longer term gain.

>>And to me, is there challenges in finding unique, new things, or, I guess my experience is sometimes managing a much smaller park.

You find something special, and it's difficult to keep it a secret, we'll call it, you know?

(all laughing) >>It is.

In fact, we just recently found a new orchid on the refuge, the water spider orchid, which, it is the first documented verified sighting in the state of Virginia.

>>Congratulations!

>>Yeah, so we're excited about that.

And in addition, there, my own biologist found the first, Mabee salamander which is native to Virginia.

Found it in the Dismal Swamp.

>>Excellent.

Do you think the climate change is affecting these new finds coming on up from, I'll say further south, or... >>Yeah, I think it's contributing to it.

I do.

>>'Cause I know further up, even, they're having some challenges as warmer weather infiltrates some of the colder areas.

>>Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, there is these small species distribution, the changes in the distribution of species that are coming and being found further north.

>>Very slight.

So, a question that's been sent in is, there's a surprise that the swamp wasn't protected until 1974.

Do you know how large it was before 1974?

>>Well, historically, it was 1.3 million acres.

>>Oh, my.

>>Yeah, from the James River all the way to the Albemarle Sound and continuing along all those tributaries to Albemarle Sound.

And so, yeah, we're just a fraction or a remnant of what the Dismal Swamp historically was.

>>Well, it's a wonder that it's being preserved as it is so that, we might not have done enough, but we did something, I'll say, as a state to be able to preserve and conserve that ecosystem.

>>Absolutely, yeah.

>>Another question, though.

is fishing and boating allowed in Lake Drummond?

>>It is, yep.

Fishing is allowed in Lake Drummond from a boat and from the two piers at the end of our trail network, and the maximum horsepower is a 25-horsepower motor.

>>Okay, no water skiing?

(laughs) >>No water skiing, jet skiing.

Yeah, that's right.

>>But what a beautiful place to get out in the middle of.

It's so lovely there.

>>It is, we call it the heart of the swamp.

It is right in the middle of the swamp, and just gorgeous.

>>Oh, that's so great.

Well, there's a question we have about Atlantic white cedar.

And the question is, Atlantic white cedar, of course, is one of our swamp plants.

And the question is, can it be grown outside of the wetland conditions?

Are you familiar with being able to grow that plant outside of a swampy situation?

>>It definitely prefers and needs wet soil conditions.

And so, there are still, although the swamp has been ditched and drained over the years, as our conservation efforts to restore that hydrology and re-wet the swamp, we do have an Atlantic white cedar component in the swamp.

And again, about six to 7,000 acres, but it's not a pure Atlantic white cedar stand.

It's mixed with hardwood or pine.

>>But that's healthier.

>>Yeah, but we do still have it and it's actually regenerating very well in the area that was burned back in 2011.

We have a large fire scar and there is about five to 600 acres.

It's naturally regenerating, looking really nice.

So, we're happy about that.

>>That's fantastic.

I know my experience.

I don't know, Amyrose, if you've tried to grow it, but I've tried to grow that tree outside of a very wet environment, and it didn't work.

So many times, many of our trees that grow in very wet conditions can grow in very dry conditions, 'cause it's the amount of oxygen in the soil or the water are comparable, just in different situations.

But I've never had success in growing it outside.

>>We have some white cedar on the farm and it is in a, we have the headwaters of the Roundabout Creek, which is the York River watershed, on my property.

And so, it is swampy there, and I think the larger interstitial spaces in the cells of that plant lend itself to wet feet.

>>But you know, we all try to do things outside.

Anyway, we also have another question about the spotted lanternfly, and this is an important question.

And it's one that, if you have spotted lanternfly, I don't know, do you have it at the swamp yet?

>>I have not heard of it being documented yet.

>>Okay, Amyrose, is it at your place yet?

>>I saw one last year in Charlottesville, just one.

But I was teaching up in New York a couple times last year.

They were everywhere littering the sidewalk in Brooklyn.

It was a little disconcerting.

From Delaware up, they were everywhere.

>>Well, Virginia Tech has put out some very good information on how to address the spotted lanternfly.

And also, University of Pennsylvania and Cornell and some of the more Northern universities also have put out information.

So, if people think they see it, it's important to call their cooperative extension agent to report it.

And also, then, to look up to get the information on the steps to take to, I won't say control it, but to reduce the population in their area.

>>The Department of Natural Resources was handing out those little cards last year.

I have one in my purse for it.

>>So that you can identify them very, very well.

Well, our next question is, I'm sorry, is concerning, do you have any rare plants or unique plants that are at the Great Dismal Swamp in the refuge?

>>I would say one that I know of is the Virginia least trillium, which is a a species of concern.

I think they're on the watch list.

And that's just distributed out through along the Suffolk Escarpment area of the refuge.

>>Do you have to worry about people trying to come and take some of those native plants?

Because I know in Central Virginia, people taking lady's slippers is a big problem here.

>>I have yet to know, 16 years I've been working there, I've yet to have a occurrence.

>>Oh, good.

>>Which is great, yes it is.

>>It's very important, yeah.

>>I mean, with the rare species, particularly.

You're not allowed to collect on a refuge at all, but yeah, sometimes those rare species entice people.

>>Thank you.

>>Thank you.

>>Well, we're out of time.

And Chris, I wanna thank you for being with us during the show and sharing us with information about that wonderful refuge that not very many people know about.

So, thank you.

>>Thanks for having me, it was wonderful.

>>Before we go, I wanna remind you to visit the "Virginia Home Grown" Facebook page to keep up with us between episodes.

We always enjoy hearing from you.

And if you're not watching on Facebook already, then switch over to catch Randy Battle take what you have and make it work.

This month, he explains how to prepare soil and make seed pellets.

Thanks again to all of our guests and thank you for watching.

I look forward to being with you again next month.

We'll be highlighting native plants as we learn about Virginia's native fruit trees and explore ways to add more native plants to our home landscape.

Remember, gardening is for everyone.

We are all growing and learning together.

Happy gardening!

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